Amoral
We Do What The Song Asks For

21.01.2016

Time flies in this day and age, but some things still happen as they were, and one of them is our team’s annual visits to Finland’s premier metal festival Tuska Open Air. Yet another thing we do annually is interviewing Amoral, for which we meet at the festival’s cosy press area. Those of you who do not follow the latest developments in the Amoral camp might ask is why do another interview with the same band for the second year in a row. But those who are more into it will not be surprised, as a lot happened to the Finns over the 12 previous months, the most important being the official return of singer Niko Kalliojarvi. Unlike their more famous colleagues from Iron Maiden and Judas Priest, Amoral did not go for a singer change, instead, they just added Niko to the current line-up, also tasking him with guitar duties. “In Sequence”, the band’s first album in this form, is just about to be released, and we have decided to unveil this interview shortly before the release date.

How are you doing? Is everything ready for tomorrow's show? I know this will be your first show as a six-piece band.

Ben Varon (guitar): Hope we are ready. We have been practicing a lot and I think it sounded pretty good yesterday. Actually this remains to be seen. You'll be a judge of that, maybe afterwards you’ll say, "Guys, you were not ready at all".
Niko: It was like perfect timing. We are just about to finish the album and we had enough time to practice for this show. But it's like...
Ben: A month or so...
Niko: Those times I had to learn one song and now I had to learn the entire set. Well, OK, there are a couple of familiar songs to me from the old albums.

Yeah, I know that you participated in some shows last year so some songs are not new for you. Is tomorrow’s set different from the one you had last year?

Niko: Of course, yeah! From the beginning when I officially joined the band I think what me and everybody wanted is to utilize everything that we have now. Arrange the songs so that we can present them more like they are on the albums.
Ben: And beyond the albums, actually, 'cause some songs are gonna have even new guitar parts and there will be keyboards in the songs where there haven't been any keyboards before. We’re just gonna build the songs to be even bigger than they used to be. Now there's one more person.

I see, that's pretty cool. And I know that you are going to present some new material tomorrow, so how many songs from the forthcoming album are you going to play?

Ben: We’re gonna do one new one, yeah. You know, how it is – the next day it's gonna be on YouTube with crappy sound. We don't want to let out too many songs, especially since our songs tend to be so long and there's only like eight songs on the album. So if we play three new ones, half of the album will already be old by the time it gets out. So we'd rather practice and play one new one just to give people the idea what the new stuff is gonna sound like when Ari and Niko are singing together.
Niko: Yeah, I think it's gonna look like a lot of stuff is going on on stage now. For last year’s show I was only there with two songs which I was doing with them but now...
Ben: We did the ten-year anniversary show when there were like six songs, but those were all the old songs.
Niko: Even then there were only five guys on stage, well, sometimes six. But now it's like almost all the time everybody's doing something. When I'm not growling to the old songs I might be playing guitar, who knows. You have to come and see.

Well, the next question is going to be very, very predictable. Why have you decided to reunite?

Ben: Cash money.
Niko: Yeah!
Ben: You have to do something that grows interest, you know. Well, like you said, Niko's been joining us on stage every now and then for many years now. He happened to be in the same city or we just saw him somewhere in the audience and would go like, “Come over and play ‘Mute’ with us”. And every time it felt great. You know, these old songs need Niko's voice, and Niko's voice is a part of the Amoral sound even though we've done a lot of stuff since then and gone all over the place from reggae to rock'n'roll.

Reggae with death metal growls?

Ben: Maybe, who knows. Wait for the new album. I think it's amazing to have not only the familiar sound from the old albums presented as a part of the new sound, but also getting one of the original members back is really cool. You know, the band is a family of sorts and it's great to have somebody back after many years.
Niko: Yeah! And you know, of course I had my reasons when I left the band but it's not like, "From now on things have to be like this eternally!" After a while, when some years went by and I had an opportunity to do the other stuff that I felt I had to do. I’ve had time to do everything...
Ben: Even to be in a monastery for six years.
Niko: Yeah, learn how to float in the air and stuff, but then we did these couple of gigs together, suddenly there was just this thing: there's no reason now why I'm not in the band. There was only a reason when I left but then there was no reason after a while. It's like - why not be a part of it again? Of course this is not something that I would constantly think about or something but when Ben called and said that they were thinking about this kind of thing, I was like: "Uh, this really sounds pretty cool". First of all, because of everything that it enables in the future but also, as Ben said, my voice is part of the old songs. Then, of course, they have this new kind of songs with Ari's voice but Ari also has had some growling parts, and now we can take the best of both worlds.
Ben: It's like having Dave Mustaine and James Hetfield in Metallica.

Niko, I know that you also play guitar…

Niko: Yeah.

So can you tell me what's the point in having three guitar players in a band? I know that there are similar examples like Iron Maiden or Lynyrd Skynyrd but it's more of a live show thing. How does it work in your band?

Niko: Well... There are a lot of harmonies, for one, in many of the songs and it's easier to duplicate them live but also there are some extra parts like orchestral and some weird instruments that have become part of the sound lately. Masi (Hukari, guitar) is playing all kind of instruments – keys, percussion and whatever. Finally that I've joined the band, I can kind of fill in for him and he's gonna be the magician, you know, doing all that crazy shit, the weird instruments. A lot of time there's gonna be only two guitars but also some extra instrument.
Ben: I’ll give you a perfect example: when we were touring the last album there was one song where Masi played keyboards and I played lead guitar and it really needed another guitar player. So our guitar tech actually played some of the rhythm guitars.

I remember that show!

Ben: 'cause we always needed somebody for that one song. Stuff like that's gonna happen more and more now. The music is what it is now, more progressive, there are more keyboard elements, now there's a lot of percussion on the new album. I think it's great to have an extra pair of hands to handle it. But of course, like you said, it is more a live thing, 'cause in the studio you can play the whole album by yourself - from drums to singing, if you know how to do it. And guitars - you can layer them as much as you want to. But you can't do it by yourself live.

Now let's talk about your forthcoming album. My first question is to Ben Ben because in the interview we made last year you mentioned that this album, the next album and the previous one, "Fallen Leaves And Dead Sparrows" (2014) should form a trilogy. Has anything changed in your plans about it? Is it still a second part of your previous album?

Ben: It was never meant to be the second part 'cause I always knew that I'm not gonna continue the story from the last album. But the idea with a trilogy was... I wanted (and I still do) to make three albums that are kind of siblings to each other. They are all theme albums, concept albums with a story going through them, and the album covers should also be connected. Like you look at these three albums so you can see it’s the same band and they somehow belong together. Yeah, a definite thing is that it’s not a part two but a sibling to "Fallen Leaves And Dead Sparrows", just another step to that new kind of material: more percussion, more growling vocals, a bit heavier maybe, dynamic.

And what's the story behind the next album?

Ben: I think it's a bit early to come out with that. It's gonna be again part of the album cover which is not released, it wouldn't have an album title yet, so the actual details of the story and the album I'd like to keep 'cause the album's probably gonna come out just next year so it's over six months from now. Maybe we'll go into these details later.

Have you recorded everything?

Ben: Almost everything, we're this close to being done. There's some string instruments still not being played, hopefully we'll get them this week from a friend of Masi’s. Some small parts of guest vocals are missing. Otherwise, I think it is all done.

It's pretty clear that there'll be a lot of death metal growls on the forthcoming album, but how do they fit the progressive metal style of Amoral? Or have you changed your musical direction again?

Niko: I don't think it changes much. I don't think that it forces any change to happen because for example on the last album there are some parts that include some growling stuff. It's just that I'm gonna be the guy who does most of that from now, we’re dividing roles. Maybe some backing vocals or something like that is gonna be for me. Anyway, it's not like every time I'm on stage there's gonna be some death metal mayhem going on. I don't think it's gonna limit us, it's just the one who's doing the growls is a different guy now.
Ben: We really take it song by song. We just see what the music asks for. If we feel like this part will benefit from Niko's voice instead of Ari's, we're going with that. And I really like combining the two. There's gonna be some really cool stuff on the new album. One of my favorite songs is gonna be like this: the verses are really eerie, ghostly sounds sung by me and Ari, and then Niko always replies to that. There are gonna be three vocalists…

Well, and talking about the original members of the band... I read on your Facebook page that your original guitar player recorded some bass on one of the tracks.

Ben: You make it sound so confusing - our old singer came back as a guitar player, an ex-guitar player is playing bass, what's wrong with these people? Silver (Ots) left the band and he’s actually become a bass player since that. He's playing in Shear and he is a great bass player, I've seen him live a few times with them. And when I saw him for the first time playing bass, I figured out that it makes sense: he has huge hands, he used to be a rhythm guitar player and he's tight as a motherfucker, so, like why would he not play bass? He's meant to do that, he's a big guy, and bass is a big instrument, that's the thing he should play, and he’s so good at it.

And could you tell something about the track he recorded?

Ben: I think it's one of the most technical songs on the album, which is why I of thought of him 'cause he is a very technical player, so precise and tight. And I thought it would be cool to kind of close that circle, invite him to play on the album 'cause he hasn't been a part of Amoral since "Show Your Colors" (2009). Yeah, it was cool. He was a professional - I sent him the song, he just practiced it for a week or two and came down and played such a great track. It sounds amazing.

And yet another technical detail. I know that you reamped the guitars and bass for "Fallen Leaves And Dead Sparrows". Is the story the same this time?

Ben: Yeah, we reamped everything.
Niko: It was a fun weekend.
Ben: It was me, Niko and Masi in our basement through a whole weekend from Friday afternoon…  And I continued after they left, the last part I did on Monday afternoon, just before the family came back home, I was still reamping the last parts.
Niko: It was a perfect reason for start early when we started on Friday because if we had started like four hours later he could have not finished on Monday.
Ben: Exactly. Yeah, it was fun. It was a bit tiring on the ears after a long weekend like that – all speakers on 10 and the noise being what it is. But it sounds great.
Niko: And the guy who's gonna mix it told us, "Good job, boys".

That's great. So, you've just said that you plan these albums to have similar covers. And who's drawing the cover now? Is it Aki Siltala?

Ben: Yeah, Aki's doing it again. And we've already had a few sit-downs with him about the cover and he showed me some demos.

Oh, that's interesting.

Ben: Yeah, it's gonna be really cool. I think it's gonna even outdo him from the last time which I thought was awesome. But it's cool working with Aki 'cause he takes it personally which I think is a good thing. It's not just a job for him. We've known him for so long, and he really invests himself in the art, he is fighting about the details, it's not like "the customer is always right" and he would do whatever I'd say. He's like: "No, I won't do this. You're wrong. It needs to be like this". I told him the story of the album and now it's gonna be his version of that cover. Actually we had a great conversation when I wanted something else to be on the cover and he's like: "That's not how I see the story that you told me. It should be like this". And he sold me this idea, he sold me a new version of the story that I made. His point was so good, I'm like: "Ok, go for it, do what you do". So that's gonna be really cool.

What are your favorite songs from the forthcoming album? Could you tell us something about these songs? We will remember it and listen more carefully to them.

Ben: Actually I thought about it a week or so ago. I think it's cool that I don't have a favorite-favorite song. I like different songs, I like them in different ways so it's not like, "Oh, I can't wait for people to hear this song 'cause it's the best song on the album". I really think it's a strong package. Of course there are a few highlights for everybody.
Niko: It's difficult to say because it's such a dynamic album as a whole so it really depends on your mood. One day you feel like laying down on the floor and there’s a mellow track that's your favorite that day. But then there are some really fucking huge and epic and brutal parts as well which are gonna suit for your mood when you hit the dune, for example.

It's interesting. Well, now let's talk about some touring. I know that you toured with Dark Tranquillity recently. Could you tell a few words about that tour, how do you find the guys from Tranquillity. Did anything funny happen during that tour?

Ben: Nothing too funny. Usually (like we've been laughing about it) the crappier the tour is the better the stories are afterwards. So if everything goes smoothly, the main band is a great bunch of people, everybody gets along, the shows are good, then you come home and it’s like, "How was the tour?" – “It was good”. But when you're on tour with a bunch of black metal bands for six weeks and nobody's getting along and the audience doesn't like you, that makes for a great story once you get back home and get over that "I'm so fucking pissed" moment. So that's one of the boring tours when everything went smoothly, the audience was great, the DT guys were awesome to us and we had a great time with them on the bus, especially the singer Mikael (Stanne), he was always sitting with us downstairs.

Do they drink much? I know the stories...

Ben: Not that much anymore, no. I like it that they know their limits, everybody in the band. Some of the guys just always go straight to sleep, some always have a beer or two and go to the bar and Mikael is always the last one standing there with a keyboard player. But still the next day they are all fresh and ready to go. They are a bit wiser and older than us, they know their limits. 'cause some of the band members in this band, let's not mention any names, like Pekka Johansson (bass), sometimes they kind of lose their perspective.
Niko: He knows his limits, he knows he doesn't have any.

Do you have any plans for similar tours in the future? I mean, with big metal stars.

Ben: Yeah, there are plans and ideas. There's already one tour on the table but we are still working the details out so it's not confirmed yet but if everything goes good we're gonna be touring very early 2016 with the new album.

And what about seeing you in Russia? Has anything changed since last year? We discussed some problems of coming to St. Petersburg. Because it's not so far from Helsinki but you've played here only once.

Ben: Yeah, it's just that we don't have good contacts in St. Petersburg or Russia in general. Nobody’s offered us any shows there, nobody's been ready to organize it. It's not that we'd just jump on the train and like, "Hey, let's go to St. Petersburg and play a show!"
Niko: That could be a plan!
Ben: We can play acoustics, like, "Yeah, we played Russia yesterday!".
Niko: You know, we'll just bring microcubes (“Roland Micro Cube”), put them straight to PA and stuff like that.
Ben: I'd love to go back, 'cause the city is beautiful and we haven't been there in exactly ten years now so I think it's about time.
Niko: The only time I've been there that was again with a black metal band so I don't know if there was a lot of, you know, our main audience, target audience there, so...
Ben: It wasn’t such a good show, or a trip. We need to start fresh with Russia, we need a good show or two there.
Niko: But we’ve got some good stories!
Ben: Yeah, exactly. It wasn't a tour, it was just one show, a long bus ride in the crappiest bus you've ever seen. No hotels or so, we were just sleeping on the cold apartment floor and it was in the dead of winter.
Niko: Yeah, it was just somebody's apartment, on the floor, no mattresses or anything. But you know, it was cool. It was not arranged by a professional dude or something, just by somebody who likes doing this as a hobby. But it was a fun trip.
Ben: But if you know anybody there...

Yeah, I know some promoters, let's try. The question to Ben. I've seen your photo with Nuno Bettencourt. That's a good one. And who are your guitar heroes...

Ben: Nuno Bettencourt.

...apart from him?

Ben: It's been the same for many years. It's Slash - number one, Nuno, Randy Rhoads, Dimebag of course. Those are the big four, I think. Was that four? I think that was four, that's the big four.

And what about you Niko? The guitar players and the vocalists, of course?

Niko: Well, I have a big list. For example, for vocalists, the guys who got me started were Max Cavalera, Burton from Fear Factory and, of course, Phil Anselmo. He was the first one, I was like: "Man, I wanna be like him!". Because I originally started as a guitar player but when I got into Pantera I was like, "Man, I don't know which one is cooler. Dimebag is fucking great but Phil is fucking awesome!" Which is better - fucking great or fucking awesome? So I just decided to learn both.
Ben: He decided to be fucking greatly awesome.
Niko: Yeah, awesomely great, or die trying. These are the main vocalists. And as to guitar players, I think it’s Dimebag, then James Hetfield who is fucking awesome because he's singing and playing at the same time. The guys from Meshuggah, both of them - I really like the songwriting of Marten Hagstrom but I like the lead playing of Fredrik Thornendal also, so I have to always name them both at the same time. And then some fusion guys like Greg Howe, he's awesome, Paul Gilbert's cool and Chris Poland. You know the guy who played in Megadeth?

Yeah, in Megadeth and then some fusion.

Niko: Yeah, I just love it. He's got such unique phrasing but he's still like more... I don't know if he knows any theory, he's just shredding and he sounds like himself but pretty far out. Oh, and Scott Henderson from Tribal Tech. And I shut up now.

So you listen to a lot of music in your spare time.

Niko: Yeah!

And what about your spare time in general?

Ben: What's that?
Niko: Yeah! I don't know about that.

So how do you combine all this: the band, full-time or part-time jobs, families?

Ben: Well, you manage, you make the best of whatever time you have. Of course, you can't really have too many hobbies outside of music when you're this involved. We started this album in the middle of February, the drums were done in one week, and since then I've been pretty much sitting in my basement, and now it’s June.
Niko: He was this close to getting a cabin fever. I couldn't even get the jokes through in the last few days.
Ben: I mean, I’m sitting in the fucking basement, the sun is shining so I can see it through a small window, there’s a squirrel on the other side, but no, here I am, editing the fucking guitar parts and recording solos.

It's better to record in winter.

Ben: And usually before it was only one singer I had to record and now there's two.
Niko: Yeah, it used to be like, "Yeah, let's go to the studio!" and you just had to get it done within a time span, but now we go, "Ok, let's do it by ourselves", and that's like an extra-job: to be the engineer as well.
Ben: But it's cool, you learn a lot, like I think all of us did, especially reamping, looking for the sounds. 'cause when we were younger somebody always did that for us in the studio, we just went and played,  and then ate pizza and drank beer. And now it's actually cool to learn. Every time there's a problem, somehow we get around it and we’re like: "Ok, now we know how to fix this. Now we know how to do that".
Niko: Yeah, and you have to listen to yourself more carefully. There's no producer saying like, "Dude, be tighter". Now we have to be like, "Is this tight enough?” – “I don't know, man, let's just make sure that it's super-tight and then just do it ten times all over again".

Thank you for the interview and, traditionally, please say a few words for your fans here in Russia. We are waiting for the new album, we are waiting for you to come finally.

Ben: I know, I sound like a broken record from the last summer but, again, let's try to make it happen, it can't be that hard. I mean, you're right next to us, it shouldn't be brain surgery to get our asses over to St. Petersburg.

I know that lots of people from Saint Petersburg come here to Helsinki to see your show, not only me, I know. And there's a team of Russian fans that supports you in Russia...

Niko: Russian fans, harass the promoters!

Amoral on the Internet: http://www.amoralweb.com

Special thanks to Heta Hyttinen for arranging this interview

Interview by Paul Vlasov
Photos by Olga Yuryevna
June 26, 2015
© HeadBanger.ru