Paradise Lost
Reluctant Cynic Yet Stout Atheist

12.06.2015

Just recently I’ve seen a black clad bearded Nick Holmes spitting curses on stage at Holland’s Neurotic Deathfest while performing with Bloodbath, and now he’s calling me via Skype to talk about the new Paradise Lost album “The Plague Within” that hits the stores just around this time. And this is phenomenal, I should say – both the new album and the chat with Mr. Holmes, who turned out to be a nice good spirited guy, not at all, as might be expected, the gloomy and somewhat reserved master of death doom metal, to which, as they say, Paradise Lost have finally returned at this stage of their glorious career. The verbatim record of this chat is given below; enjoy.

What’s the new hip country song? (this is a redneck way of greeting in the States – ed.)

A new hip country song? I have no idea! (laughs out loud)

OK, let’s be serious now: are you in the middle of the Bloodbath tour or having some kind of a break?

We are just doing summer festivals, so… We are going to Maryland Deathfest in a few weeks. It’s not a tour, it’s just festivals.

So are you at home now?

I’m at home at the moment, yeah.

That’s some interesting daily routine you have, doing interviews the whole day till late at night…

Not today, the other day I did… I had two days completely full. I only have two today, so that’s ok.

Are you tired of interviews then?

No, they are ok. When you do eight interviews in a row then it kinda gets tiring.

Alright, how are the shows with Bloodbath going?

They are great. We have only done two shows so far and we have another 11 or 12. So far so good.

Two shows – it was Norway (Inferno Festival – ed.) and Tilburg, Netherlands, right?

That’s correct.

I saw you in Tilburg at the Neurotic Deathfest. It was pretty surprising to hear some good growls from you.

Oh, thank you. It was a good gig.

It was also pretty interesting to see you sporting this Dostoyevsky-style preacher-beggar look. Who created it?

Well, it wasn’t created, it just kinda came together. We didn’t know exactly what I was going to wear cause I didn’t want to wear the hooded thing, cause it was kinda dangerous on the stage cause I could trip over it. (laughs) I had to get something more stage-friendly. So we kinda modified the priest kind of thing, but it’s not quite a priest thing… I don’t know, it just came together.

Where did you get that robe?

We got it from a local place that makes that sort of things, so we kinda threw it together. It’s like a priest thing, but, you know, kind of.

Are you planning to stick to this image for some long time?

With Bloodbath yeah, I mean, that’s what it is with Bloodbath…

And with Paradise Lost – the beard, short hair and stuff?

Well I can’t really have long hair, cause those days are behind me, but I can have a beard, so why not, for now, yeah. But it’s easy come easy go, you know. I can grow it – I’ll shave it, I’m still the same person.

In the past history of Paradise Lost you changed some hairstyles. Which do you like the most?

(laughs) When I had thick hair when I was young I liked that hair, but now it’s not thick, so I can’t go like that. I guess long hair is great but I don’t have the hair anymore, I’m an old man now, I can’t go like that. (everybody laughs)

Right. Did you like that period of Paradise Lost when the “Host” and “Believe in Nothing” albums were made and when band members appeared in videos in bright clothes?

We enjoyed it. We had fun in those times. They were not the best for the band, but on the personal level we really enjoyed it, yeah. We used to have a lot of fun. But it wasn’t a good period for the band commercially.

Do you still like the music from those times?

Yeah, I think “Host” is one of the best albums the band has ever done. It’s not a metal album, but its sound is strong and it’s a strong album, just not a metal one. I can understand why people don’t like it, but I still think… Well that’s where we were at that time.

What sort of music do you like to listen to now?

I don’t listen to most of music. If I listen to music I have to be in a good mood. I don’t like to listen to music if I feel negative.

Does that mean you are not in a good mood for most of the time?

I’m not in a good mood most of the time. (everybody laughs)

You seem to be now…

Yeah, I’m in a good mood now, but it will vanish when the phone goes down. (everybody laughs) I’m kind of… I don’t like new bands just because I’m told to like them. A lot of new bands I think are rubbish and just because people say they are good I don’t necessarily think they are. New bands that I like… I like Pallbearer, their last album is pretty good, the Behemoth album is really strong. I’m very open with music, but mostly I like melancholic music. It doesn’t have to be metal, I like to listen to melancholic classical music, but at the moment I prefer to listen audio books than to music, so that I don’t have to bother reading, I just listen to them.

What books do you prefer?

I’m listening to Bill Bryson, Stephen King books… I just like listening to books, I find it relaxing listening to books as opposed to reading them.

Do you watch TV?

I don’t watch terrestrial TV, but I watch lots and lots of TV shows… Yeah, I love TV and films, but I don’t kinda watch terrestrial TV. I watch shows like “House of Сards” and stuff like that.

Do you like comedy shows, like “Red Dwarf”, “Green Wing” or, say, “Mighty Boosh”?

I don’t like the shows you mentioned but I love comedy shows. But again I’m very picky with it, I don’t like everything. There hasn’t been a modern comedy shows that I found great… Maybe “IT Crowd” was the last thing that I dug. But I’m a massive fan, my favorite British comedy is “Blackadder” and things like that, they are perfect for me.

All right. Returning to the image – what kind of an outfit do you prefer in your everyday life?

Ehm, I don’t know, it depends on the weather… T-shirt and shorts – whatever’s comfortable. I don’t walk around with bully belts and kinda big boots or anything. Just whatever’s comfortable, you know.

Mostly black?

Well if I’m buying clothes I prefer to wear black, yes, but I’ve always have worn black… I don’t kinda wear orange T-shirts and yellow T-shirts. I would buy black boots… I do have some brown ones, but I prefer the black.

Now to the images of a different sort – how did you end up with that cover picture by Zbiegnev Bielak (and how do you pronounce his name)?

I don’t know how to pronounce it, I guess that is as good a try as any. We liked the work that he’d done with some of his previous projects, so we were interested to see what he would come up with in terms of interpretation of the album, the album title. Basically his idea is that it’s a tormented Sisyphus. He's pushing his burden back up the slippery wall of a long frozen illusion. That’s what the image is on the right hand side of the picture. There is a lot of detail in it and it reminds me of old days of vinyl covers, the 80-s and 90-s vinyl sleeves. There’s a lot to look at and we kinda like that element.

What’s the connection to the musical and lyrical content of the new record?

Well, it’s based purely on the title – “The Plague Within”, and that plague within is a mental state, not necessarily a positive frame of mind, being perhaps tortured, tortured souls, tortured spirits. It was based purely on the title, I think.

Right. How do you write lyrics? Is there any set procedure?

Not really. It’s about what fits, it’s about a texture I need to add to the music. The lyrics have never to be taken away from the music, it’s all part of the package for me. I like to write about life, things that happen in life, but just from a different edge. I write about life now as a middle aged man; when I was 18 I wrote about life as an 18-year-old boy, so it’s a different perspective. You know, I have a lot of significant things in my life happened, both positive and negative, and all these things affect you as a human being and so it’s interesting to kinda write about it, I guess.

Is it important for you that the lyrics are comprehensible for the listener?

No, I don’t really care about that. Lyrics are very much part of an art form and I like certain lines to mean a lot and then maybe other lines don’t mean as much. And there are certain words I do repeat, I use again and again. And there are certain elements to the whole structure of a song that make it to a certain amount poetry, perhaps, I don’t like the word necessarily, but… Yeah, I don’t think everything is black and white and I don’t like to read lyrics that “Ah!”, you know. I prefer if there’s some ambiguity there.

So you are playing riddles with the listener…

Not necessarily, it depends… Sometimes there are things that are obviously clear… If I’m mentioning how I distrust organizations or distrust religion and you can read that – you know, it’s pretty much black and white… I wouldn’t say it’s riddles. People get their own things out of lyrics and I quite like that fact – that people draw their own conclusions and draw their own feelings from them, but I wouldn’t say it’s riddles. I just don’t think everything has to be black and white to be interesting.

I sometimes get the impression that smooth sound design is your priority.

Oh, yeah, I see that point as well. I mean I’m not writing a musical here, you know, it’s not about one song having to lead to the next, it’s about what’s right for the song. If these words sound better that other words that I’ll use these words, because people normally hear the music first and the lyrics is something separate. Sometimes people don’t even care about the lyrics, you know. I mean, I care about the lyrics, not everybody does it, so it’s about what’s right for the song.

So I guess you are not very keen on doing the liner notes and explaining what the songs are about…

I’d rather do the liner notes, I always do the liner notes, because it’s easier for me to give somebody an idea of I’m talking about, because when I write the lyrics I kinda go into a little world of my own and I don’t think about the lyrics again so to kinda sit and go through what each song is about I have to sit and go through the song again myself. So it’s not like, “I’ll write a song about Alexander the Great” – it’s not that simple for me. That’s why I do liner notes. Did you get the liner notes?

No.

Oh, I have some liner notes, I’ll send them to you.

Oh, thank you, that would be great. Are you going to add the liner notes to the album package?

Ehm, there is a variation of them on the special edition. But I usually send all the liner notes to the label, because it obviously gives you more things to kinda bounce off the questions about the lyrics, it makes it easier. Can you get the file?

Yeah, thank you! (Check out the liner notes under the interview!)

That’s the power of modern technology. (laughs)

How did the songwriting and recording process go this time? You recorded in London’s Orgone Studio. How was it different from the previous recording experience?

Well, everybody knows what they got to do by the time they get into the studio, so it was pretty smooth. Before we record the album we always demo the songs extensively so we have a very good idea of what we are going to do. And it was a very fragmented recording, we didn’t spend much time together recording, we did it at different times, so we didn’t do any studio reports because we were not there all the time together, you know. We’ve done a lot of albums and everybody knows what they got to do…

How is it going with the already not so new drummer Adrian Erlandsson?

He’s been in the band six years. It’s fine. He’s busy. I think he’s in Australia now with The Haunted. Yeah, he’s a busy guy. He doesn’t let the grass grow under his feet. (laughs)

Right. Do you like doing side projects?

Yeah, I’ve really enjoyed doing the Bloodbath thing. But I couldn’t do more than one, I think. Once you start a tour campaign for an album it’s very time consuming and then you get to do a long tours. I think more than two bands would be too much, I don’t think I could do it personally. But I’m really enjoying doing Bloodbath and Paradise Lost, it’s really nice, they are very different and it’s also fun to do both.

What do you think of Greg Mackintosh’s project Vallenfyre?

It’s great. He’s been doing it for nearly five years now, it’s quite a long time now. He loves doing it, he’s kinda getting back to his youth, music we listened to as kids. Yeah, it’s all good, if it helps. Everything that helps Paradise Lost is a good thing. I think doing the side things makes the band fresher, and it’s a good thing.

You say it helps… In what way?

I think if you want to explore new types of music that would not necessarily be right for Paradise Lost then it gives you a vent to do that. You can do everything you wanna do musically. I think what Greg does with Vallenfyre wouldn’t necessarily be right for Paradise Lost. If you have anything you want to explore creatively having a couple of bands to do it is a good thing, but I do think at the same time some artists spread themselves too thin. You can do too much and then it kind of spoils the potency of your main thing. But there’s nothing wrong with doing just a side band, you know, that’s cool. And also it’s a sign of the time – everybody does side bands these days.

Does it happen that the tours of Paradise Lost and any other side project of yours coincide, like might it happen that Paradise Lost and Bloodbath or Paradise Lost and Vallenfyre tour together?

No, I mean, we are doing festivals that are back to back, but there won’t be any tours together, that definitely would never happen. So it would be either Paradise Lost, Bloodbath or Vallenfyre separately, not together.

You are doing a pretty aggressive side project and at the same time Paradise Lost are getting more aggressive…

Well, there is some texture to the new stuff. A more aggressive voice is adding definitely an extra thing to the sound of Paradise Lost, but I think what I’m doing in Bloodbath is very different, it’s a very different style of music, it’s a lot more intense, you know. Paradise Lost is more about the dark feel, the more doom feel.

Is it difficult for you to sing in an aggressive style now?

No, not really, it’s kind of easy, really, I don’t find it hard. It’s hard when you haven’t sung for some time and then you start singing – that’s hard, but after a while it’s ok. You get used to it. It is kinda easier than the other voice sometimes. There’s less room for error, you know. You can see right or wrong with growling. If you’ve got a voice, then you can growl. But if you’ve got a voice you can’t always sing, so… (laughs)

Right. Do you do anything to keep in shape vocally?

The best thing I think for vocals is sleep, you know, you can’t beat having sleep. I mean, partying is not a good idea, nightclubs is not a good idea, anything where you have to talk is not a good idea…

Like doing interviews, right?

Yeah, but I don’t do interviews when we are touring so it’s not a problem. Yeah, I think talking a lot is bad, and I’m kind of a chatty person, I do talk a lot… Yeah, I think drinking and partying is a definite no-no.

Do you keep in shape in other aspects – do you do any sports?

I cycle three times a week, hopefully. I wanna cycle after this actually. I try to cycle as much as I can, I really enjoy it. Yeah, I think at my age you have to do something. (laughs) Cause you have to try and repair all the damage from the 80-s and the 90-s.

Was there a lot of damage done?

From drinking, I’m sure, of course, always. Yeah, we drank like fuck in this band. We still drink. But you’ve got to try and put something back, you know. Maybe it’s too late, who knows, but you have to try at least.

Do you still drink a lot, like in the past?

No, I don’t drink as bad, but you know, we are a pretty hard drinking band, we always have been. It’s part of the chemistry with the band. We are guys from Northern England and we like to drink. That’s just how it is. Hopefully we can continue doing that, but we don’t drink to the extent we used to do. You can’t play concerts and drink like that, it’s impossible. We just don’t talk about it all the time like all these bands do, you know. We don’t talk. We are too busy drinking to talk about it. (everybody laughs)

So when you go on tour does it look like a constant party or less like this now?

It’s not a party at all on tour. We’d do a show, then we’d maybe have a couple of quiet drinks and then we go to bed, so it’s not a party at all. I mean the schedules now can be quite hard and with all the early flights – you can’t burn the candle at both ends. You can do it when you are young, but you can’t do it when you’re old.

Are there tours planned for the new Paradise Lost album?

Yeah, we’ve got South America early September, we are starting the European tour on September 27, a couple of festivals, not so much this year, but next year we’ll have a lot, I guess. Then we’ve got quite a heavy tour in… Where are you?

Nizhny Novgorod, you came here 2013.

Yeah, I think we’ll get over there, maybe December, you know. We’ll see. We have not a lot of dates yet, but hopefully we’ll get over there in December… It will be nice to do more shows in Russia as well. We did a few more last time but it will be nice to do even more, so we’ll see.

Did I hear it correctly – you want to come to Nizhny Novgorod? Remember the name, please.

Yeah, definitely. Usually it’s St. Petersburg and Moscow and that’s kinda it, but we did a few more last time, and next time hopefully we’ll do maybe even more, maybe we’ll spend two weeks there, I don’t know. It will be nice to play more places around Russia.

Right. Last time in Nizhny Novgorod did you have a chance to look around the city?

No. (laughs) But I remember that place. Like I said – the schedules are super tight and you don’t get a lot of time. Years ago you used to get lots of time, but now you fly in and fly out. But next time – who knows.

Are there going to be any unexpected bonus tracks on the new record? Any Morrissey covers?

No, there’ll be no covers on this one. We recorded 12 songs, 10 songs are on the album, so two songs will be bonus songs. They are pretty good songs, you know. We don’t write songs specifically to be B-sides. We just write an album and then we see, we let other people decide. So there’s two extra songs and they are cool songs.

You said you let other people decide. Who are those people? Like the producer, the manager…?

No, I mean you have your own kind of idea what might be B-side, extra songs. Sometimes you just need maybe the A&R people  to confirm your suspicions. It’s always nice to have a third party influence of somebody you respect, someone’s opinion who you respect.

Right. By the way I love your cover of that Morrissey song  - “How Soon Is Now”.

Oh, yeah. I heard it recently, I didn’t recognize it was our song, yeah, it’s pretty cool, thanx. I’m glad you like it.

Do you like that sort of music – brit pop or whatever style this is?

I like The Smiths and I like Morrissey. I don’t like brit pop, just Smiths and Morrissey. There is nothing else from that era that I particularly like. Maybe there might be a few songs that I like. The Smiths is the only band I would say that I like from that time.

All right, I seem to be out of questions now. Do you have anything else to say that I forgot to ask?

Hopefully we can get over there and play again and I hope probably you will enjoy the album. And yeah, see you maybe in December or maybe next year, you know.

Thanks for the interview, it was really fun. Hope to see you here. Cheers!

Ok, man, thanks, all the best. Bye!

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Paradise Lost “The Plague Within” liner notes

No Hope In Sight
It’s easy to consider this song as totally negative from the offset, but this isn't necessarily so. It just depends on how comfortable you are in yourself. Three members of the band are parents, and most are now adult, as each generation comes along we in turn shuffle nearer to the edge. It's a potentially grim prospect, and makes me wonder if my grandparents had similar thoughts, but ironically, as I grow older and see my children grow older I am less worried about death than I ever was before, and on certain off days filled with bad news, misunderstanding, lying and all the horrendous pointless death in the world, I could almost welcome it.

Terminal
One of the more upbeat songs on the album, a death metal edge vocally without ever actually becoming death metal. The word Terminal itself has many different meanings, however for me, it’s more about the death of our planet. The ”I can hope, as violence and torture grows” line reflects, how constant exposure to torture and unspeakable acts of violence in the name of religion desensitize us and especially our children. Our so called modern age is slowly returning to a medieval one. A terminal is also a connection between two devices, a metaphor for love and harmony in the world that will never exist whilst religion does.

An Eternity Of Lies
As a reluctant cynic yet stout atheist, I find the concept of reincarnation as ridiculous as ghosts and goblins, so I guess lyrically, this is a kind of fantasy song about being born again only to find out life isn't actually any better the second time round. Out of all the songs from this album, I think this one took the longest to get together with originally about 15 different versions until we settled with this one, Greg's better half Heather sings over the chorus and as a result its probably one of the more melancholic songs on the album.

Punishment Through Time
This was the first song we put together when we began to write the new album. As usual when we begin a new album, we try to clear the slate. After 14 albums it can be difficult to know where to start, but even though it’s a distant memory, the best option is usually to think about the music we loved and excited us as teenagers, and I guess this song is a result of that. Any band you think this song sounds like – you are probably right and it's probably intentional too. With a real 80s vibe, I think it’s the only song of its kind on the album, it also has a noticeable heavy nod to our “Shades Of God” album too! Lyrically this song is about how things are different in life for different generations, but generally never really change. Although packaged differently, all our problems remain the same.

Beneath Broken Earth
As far as writing goes, being impulsive doesn't always work and can be risky, however, after thinking we had completed all the writing, we decided to write a total doom song halfway through recording the drum parts at Orgone Studios – much to Adrian’s horror no doubt! Parallels to “Rotting Misery” will be instantly drawn, but even though similar I think this song has a modern Paradise Lost feel to it, and for me at least, it’s a better song! Lyrically, it’s about all roads leading to death. Regardless of lifestyle or belief there is only one end. “The King” being death itself.

Sacrifice The Flame
A fairly laid back dark song. This song is about purity being gauged on lies and deceit, the true burning flame, pure and virile, the flickering dying light driven by dishonestly and disappointment. I always used to find the metaphor for humans as candles or stars in the sky a bit puerile, but as I’ve progressed through life I now find it quite a nice romantic concept and in a room full of them – candles and people, it’s always fascinating to see which one will extinguish first.

Victim Of The Past
We played this song at our Plovdiv Roman Theater in Bulgaria concert long before it was actually recorded, a slightly surreal experience for us, having never played a song that was prior recorded and released since the demo days in the late 80s! Are you Victims Of The Past? Is a question I guess this title will summon, I believe we are all victims of what has gone before us, as we will never see the future. I'm pretty sure that good or bad, every decision we make is dictated by something that we have directly or indirectly experienced in the past.

Flesh From Bone
One of the more aggressive songs on the album, like “Beneath Broken Earth” this song also arrived later in the day after a burst of impulsive death metal inspiration, lyrically also very death metal about giving oneself, stripping flesh and blood to the causes of evil and destruction. Death metal lyrics are always very dramatic and aggressive, after 20 odd years writing in a perhaps more thoughtful way, it’s quite fun to write more aggressively, and of course, the words have to suit the music.

Cry Out
Probably the most upbeat and “rocky” song on the album, and very different from the song before it! A song literally about the human reaction to uncomfortable situations, or guilt, be it avoiding confrontation over minor argument or making excuses for a serious crime, trying to talk a way out of a hopeless situation, and obviously failing miserably.

Return To The Sun
Lyrically, this a very typical song, as in I initially imagined a grand concept based around the title, mankind failing, and starting over again from a ray of sunshine, coming back to reality, this is a song about going back to square one and starting again, and would relationships be the same, or even happen if the counter was reset. As the musical ideas progress, lyrics change and the end result is a song about thinking you know someone well, but at the same time you are almost certain you don’t really know them at all.

Fear Of Silence
The most laid back song we recorded for this album, and lyrically, possibly the shortest I’ve ever written. It’s a pretty simple song about silence actually meaning death as opposed to tranquility.

Never Look Away
This song deals with the realization that we are ultimately on our own, and facing the negative things in life and attacking them head on instead of wallowing in self pity and allowing the situation to get worse is always the best option. However it’s sometimes not all that easy.

Paradise Lost on the Internet: http://www.paradiselost.co.uk

Special thanks to Birgit Luhmeyer (Century Media Records) for arranging this interview

Richter
May 13, 2015
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